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1 Samson  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 12:06:20pm

“Somehow, over the course of the past 9 years, people’s pro-American, pro-Israel stance has morphed into an anti-Muslim, anti-Islam one.”

Although the two are related, they are not the same issue. It is possible to support Israel (and, by extension, the Jewish people) without being anti-Muslim or anti-Islam, and without being prejudiced against Muslims or Islam in the US. There is a real problem, on the other hand, that is genuine and should not be ignored except at our own peril. Namely, there are many in the Islamic world who hate Jews, Israel, the United States and the west in general, and who would stop at nothing to destroy all of them. Their fight against Israel is mostly based on their own religious prejudices and their hatred of the west is primarily religious or ideological in nature as well. They want to destroy us, and in the case of the Jews, kill us. This is not mere paranoia, it can be found in the Arabic and Muslim press every day of the week. Not serious when they say “Death to America, Death to Israel”? Just kidding? I’m not waiting to find out.

So, we must all balance our responsibility for justice to our Muslim fellow citizens with our defense against a political, ideological and religious force that genuinely means to do us harm. While this appears self-evident, it is not always so easy in real life. We don’t want “racial profiling” to screen for terrorists on our airline flights, but we all want to be safe. We don’t want to discriminate against any religions concerning where they build their houses of worship, but the arguments against the Cordoba project being built in its planned location should not be dismissed so carelessly. Fortunately, we have laws, a free press, a civil society and police who we can expect to protect us rather than prey upon us, still not the case everywhere around the world. We can discuss these issues (and should), with blogs (like this one) being a great place to do so. Hopefully we will come, as a free society, to the correct solution, or at least the best solution, after reasoned discussion.

But, no, my pro-American, pro-Israel stance has not morphed into an anti-Muslim, anti-Islam one. On the other hand, we cannot afford to be blind to history and to the realities we face. The information we need to make sound judgments is everywhere to be found, thanks to the internet in particular, the rest is up to us.

…Pacem in Terris, Mir, Shanti, Salaam, Hey Wa. Thank you Pete.

2 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 12:11:21pm

re: #1 Samson

Ah, I wrote it awkwardly.
I should have said, for SOME people, their pro-American, pro-Israel stance morphed into an anti-Muslim, anti-Islam one.

3 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 12:12:25pm

re: #1 Samson

What are the arguments against the Cordoba community center that you feel have been dismissed carelessly, please?

Remember that Rauf is a supporter of Israel when you answer.

4 Samson  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 12:26:50pm

re: #3 Obdicut

I apologize, but I don’t really want to debate the issue of the Cordoba center. The arguments for and against have been posted everywhere and I don’t have much to add personally.

As for Rauf being a “supporter” of Israel, I’m not convinced. Whether he is or is not is not really relevant to the location of the Cordoba project, however.

5 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 12:31:45pm

re: #4 Samson

If you aren’t willing to back up your opinions, then don’t expect anyone to take them seriously.

6 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 1:01:11pm

re: #5 Obdicut

If you aren’t willing to back up your opinions, then don’t expect anyone to take them seriously.

Bingo.

7 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 1:04:08pm

re: #6 reine.de.tout

Did you see this page, Reine? It’s so sweet:

littlegreenfootballs.com

8 Samson  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 1:12:32pm

re: #5 Obdicut

Sorry, but I’ve already said plenty and won’t be provoked.

See, however, my response to your other post today.

9 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 1:13:58pm

re: #8 Samson

You just mean you won’t actually explain yourself.

10 Samson  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 1:20:43pm

re: #9 Obdicut

I think my lengthy comments are self-explanatory.

11 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 1:50:46pm

re: #7 Obdicut

Did you see this page, Reine? It’s so sweet:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Just checked it out. Great story.
Did you notice how red in the face the guy in the photo is? I’m guessing he’s really really hot (as in, overheated from the heat).

I’m always struck by the level of discomfort our military folks must deal with, in addition to the danger when they are deployed this way.

12 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 2:28:50pm

re: #10 Samson

I think my lengthy comments are self-explanatory.

Except you never actually provided a reason that the community center shouldn’t be built where the local Islamic community needs it.

And you refuse to explain.

13 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 2:29:29pm

re: #11 reine.de.tout

Yes. A friend of mine in the military complains most about the sameness. Everything is the same. There’s so little variety. That’s really why he loves care packages, no matter what they contain; at least it’s different!

14 Samson  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 2:39:20pm

re: #12 Obdicut

I just don’t feel like arguing about the Cordoba project although I am curious why you suggest that the intended site is “where the local Islamic community needs it.” If you don’t feel like explaining, I won’t pursue it further. I think the rest of my comments are self-explanatory.

15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 2:43:52pm

re: #14 Samson

The place the community center is going to be located is where the Imam has worked for the past thirty years. There is a large Muslim community there. Currently, there is a prayer room in the building being used for overflow from a nearby mosque.

Why on earth do you think they’re building it there? Oh, I forgot, you don’t feel like arguing about it, though you feel comfortable saying that and then immediately asking me a question about it.

16 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 2:45:07pm

As for the Imam being a supporter of Israel, by the way:

littlegreenfootballs.com

I guess you’re not a big LGF reader.

17 Samson  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 2:56:03pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Thank you for your reply.

FYI, I am a big LGF reader and have been for many years. I am not convinced that Rauf is a “supporter” of Israel, NYT article notwithstanding, although I suppose it depends what one means by a supporter. In any case, his views on Israel should not determine the outcome of the Cordoba project.

18 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 2:57:24pm

re: #17 Samson

Why are you not convinced?

And since I answered your question, are you going to do the decent thing and explain what reason there is not to build the Cordoba community center where it was planned, or are you going to continue to obviously dodge the question?

19 Samson  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 3:31:39pm

re: #18 Obdicut

When I get a more thoughtful response from you about my other post today, I’ll consider responding further. I did not argue against the Cordoba project and only indicated that there are arguments against building it in its intended location that should not be dismissed as trivial. Truth is, you already know all of the arguments pro and con regarding this subject and can already find them posted in a thousand other places. I have nothing new to add on this subject. For the third time, whether or not Rauf is a supporter of Israel, a subject I don’t care to argue about further either, has no bearing on whether Cordoba should go forward.

20 Cato the Elder  Sat, Sep 4, 2010 5:35:02pm

re: #10 Samson

I think my lengthy comments are self-explanatory.

Your lengthy comments are lengthy.


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